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“As long as the BBTI do not make philosophical changes, then their changes are all okay!”
Dear Jaya Krsna Prabhu! Dandavat pranam! Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Our previous chat was very messy and unstructured. It was not possible for either of us to present our arguments and points in an orderly way. Therefore let us now start a debate where we focus on some concrete points. I suggest we start with your above request:
Jaya Krsna Dasa (JKD):
“Whenever possible, please share any verse you found which is philosophically completely against what Srila Prabhupada taught because of this change. I mean only philosophical changes only, not any other type of changes”
Now, there are a few significant things about this request of yours. It has an implied premise, namely that:
“All changes that are not of a philosophical nature are okay.”
The truth of this implied premise can be disproved by quoting Jayadvaita Swami and the BBTI:
“As you know, and as we kept in mind while doing the work, Srila Prabhupada staunchly opposed needless changes.” (Jayadvaita Swami, Letter to Amogha Lila, 1986)
Now, as we see Prabhupada did not did not only disapprove of philosophical changes to his books. He also disapproved of “needless changes”. Therefore, if we can find any needless changes in his books, we know that Jayadvaita Swami and the BBTI have done something wrong. My contention is that Jayadvaita Swami and the BBTI have made many needless changes. Too many.
Here is one example:
“And the covers, if possible, should always be the same for each respective book regardless of what language it may be printed in.” (Letter to Jadurani, Bombay, January 3, 1975)
So why have the BBTI changed the covers of many of the books? This seems to be completely needless. Prabhupada loved the original cover. It was very special. It was popular. It made devotees. Why change it? We have asked the BBTI and Jayadvaita Swami why the cover was changed. But we have not received any reply.
Maybe you can answer this question, dear Jaya Krsna Dasa Prabhu?
Read more about the changes to the covers here:
And here:
https://arsaprayoga.com/2013/12/24/prabhupadas-instructions-on-front-covers-not-honered/
So now I have:
1. Argued against your implied premise, and therefore against the validity of your question.
2. Presented positive evidence that the changes of the covers are against Srila Prabhupada’s instructions.
Now you have to:
1. Defend your implied premise, or admit that your question is invalid.
2. Argue against my points about the covers, or admit that you either cannot answer it, or that it is in fact against Srila Prabhupada’s instructions to change them.
3. Possibly present further points on the matter of the book changes.
—
Ajit Krishna Dasa
Changing of Srila Prabhupada’s Transcripts (from Sampradaya Sun)
BY: KRISHNA DASA
Jun 03, 2014 — USA (SUN) — It is one thing to edit a book posthumously, but what seems more egregious is the editing of a transcript of a conversation. Such editing is found in the book Journey of Self Discovery, supposedly by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, which was first published in 1990 as we see from a search of the U.S. Copyright records.
That book includes a conversation between Srila Prabhupada and a Dr. S. P. Oliver, Rector of the University of Durban, in Westville, South Africa, on October 10, 1975. The book is available online through http://www.prabhupadabooks.com and the relevant page can be seen here or in the e-book on page 23, where we see that during the conversation, Srila Prabhupada asks a devotee to read some verses and purports from the Bhagavad-gita As It Is.
Then we see that the transcript uses totally text from the version of the Bhagavad-Gita As It Is that was edited and published after the departure of Srila Prabhupada. For example, during that conversation a devotee supposedly was reading the verse and purport to Bg 4.34. We can see the 1972 version and the later “Revised and Enlarged” version side by side.
It is not possible that a devotee with Srila Prabhupada in 1975 was able to read the version of the Bhagavad-gita that did not exist until the 1980s.
—
This conversation took place in 1975, and the verse quoted was from the 1972 editionof Bhagavad-gita As It Is. But here we find that the verse has been changed by the BBTI to fit the 1983 edition.
By Lokaguru Dasa
Dear Friends,
Imagine if Srila Prabhupada returned today and sat down on His Vyasasana to give class:
Devotee interrupting Srila Prabhupada:
“Srila Prabhupada, why are you using the Macmillan Bhagavad-gita As It Is (1972)? This book is banned by ISKCON. We are only allowed to use the BBTI books in your ISKCON society now.”
BY: BHAKTA TORBEN (From Sampradaya Sun)
Apr 18, 2014 — DENMARK (SUN) — The common arguments from the so-called BBT, “BBTI”:
“And in the conversation where Srila Prabhupada complained so strongly about “rascals editors,” Srila Prabhupada said about Jayadvaita, “He is good.”
“Of course, regarding Jayadvaita Swami, the BBT’s chief editor, Srila Prabhupada wrote, “Concerning the editing of Jayadvaita Prabhu, whatever he does is approved by me. I have confidence in him.” (letter to Radhavallabha, 7 September 1976)
(From BBT International’s website)
NOW LISTEN PLEASE:
Prabhupada: I have given you charge of this BBT, millions of dollars you are dealing, but it is not for your misuse. As soon as you misuse, that is your responsibility.
Ramesvara: Yes, but he says but still, you’ll know that I’m going to misuse it.
Prabhupada: No. That Krsna knows, when something charge is given. But because you are independent, I know that “Ramesvara is very good boy; let him be in charge.” But you can misuse at any moment, because you have got independence. You can misuse at any moment. At that time your position is different.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk — June 3, 1976, Los Angeles
(Morning Walk — June 3, 1976, Los Angeles)
This very important snippet is from a missing audio exchange, from a not properly (actually cutout) transcribed morning walk conversation. (That´s another issue in itself).
So the conclusion MUST be that the above two arguments for the continued post-samadhi editing of Jayadvaita Swami & Co. are CONDITIONAL. They are NOT absolute green lights from Srila Prabhupada to Jayadvaita Maharaj, at all.
ys. Bhakta Torben, Denmark.
BY MADHUDVISA DASA ON MARCH 27, 2014 (Posted from www.bookchanges.com)
ISKCON’s unauthorized changes to Srila Prabhupada’s books are the most important issue that we, as followers of Srila Prabhupada, have to clearly understand. Our connection to Srila Prabhupada is through his transcendental books and as he says: “I am living in my books.” So if someone starts messing with Prabhupada’s books he is trying to put himself between Srila Prabhupada and us, the followers of Srila Prabhupada. No follower of Srila Prabhupada would ever tolerate such an intrusion into his relationship with Srila Prabhupada.
ISKCON are trying to force devotees to only purchase books that contain thousands and thousands of unauthorized changes to and they are practically banning the reading and distribution of Srila Prabhupada’s original books.
Srila Prabhupada’s mission was to write, publish and distribute his transcendental books. Prabhupada has taken the timeless knowledge of the Vedas and presented it completely without any compromise in a language and style so easy to understand. Anyone, no matter how fallen, can understand Vaisnava philosophy and become a fixed up devotee of Krishna by reading his books.
Prabhupada’s books are not ordinary books. Srila Prabhupada said every night Krishna would come to him and dictate the books. Every day he would read his own books. When asked by his servant, Srutakiriti Prabhu, why he was reading his own books, Prabhupada answered: “These are not my books, they are Krishna’s books.” Even Prabhupada himself was constantly reading his own books and enjoying great spiritual ecstasy.
As confirmed many times by Ramesvara Prabhu [who was in charge of the BBT and the person ultimately responsible for publishing Srila Prabhupada’s books] Prabhupada’s greatest fear was that after his disappearance his disciples [who were infected with what he called “the American disease”, the tenancy to always change] would change his books and thus ruin everything.
“Prabhupada just explained how everyone’s a rascal for daring to touch anything in his books. The greatest anxiety he has is that after he’s gone we will add things to his books that are bogus, we will take things out that are bona fide, we will make changes in his books and the whole work for 10,000 years, his plan Prabhupada was working on, it will all be spoiled by us because of our tendency to change. And Prabhupada gave an example that the disease to do things differently is so inherent in the Americans that for the sake of doing things differently we would walk on our hands rather than our feet.” (Ramesvara interview 1981)
There are hundreds of direct orders by Srila Prabhupada forbidding changes in his books. Even if they changes were apparently an improvement on principle Prabhupada would not allow any changes to his books:
“I’ve had many experiences with Prabhupada literally drilling me, pounding it into my head thatyou’re never allowed to change anything in his books. He trained me so intensely on this point. Even when the changes make sense he wouldn’t let me change. Just to train me.” (Ramesvara interview 1981)
This order from Srila Prabhupada forbidding changes to his books is no secret. If you read Prabhupada’s letters you can not miss it. It is everywhere. Prabhupada is often complaining about the “American disease” of always changing and he orders his disciples not to change anything.
But unfortunately as soon as Srila Prabhupada left our material vision Jayadvaita Swami started work on a new “Revised and Enlarged” edition of Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Jayadvita had been working in the BBT for years and was aware Prabhupada’s greatest fear was that his disciples would change his books after he left. Still Jayadviata had a burning desire to change Prabhupada’s books. Prabhupada’s chosen editor was Hayagriva Prabhu, however Jayadviata considered himself a better editor and thought he could do a better job than Hayagriva had done editing Srila Prabhupada’s books.
So as soon as Prabhupada left the planet Jayadviata tried to go back to the earliest drafts of theBhagavad-gita, before Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva had edited them, and he tried to remove Hayagriva’s editing style and influence on Prabhupada’s Gita and replace it with his own style and influence.
Hayagriva Prabhu was a University professor in English. Eminently qualified to present Srila Prabhupada’s books in a language and style that was perfect for the Western audience. The combination of Srila Prabhupada’s writing and Hayagriva’s editing was certainly a grand success. On the other hand Jayadviata was a high-school drop-out with no qualifications in regard to the English language, however he was a very good typist. Prabhupada has said in one place that Hayagriva is the best editor and in another place that Jayadviata is the best typist. So it was like that. They were both experts in their respective fields.
Jayadviata got a copy of Prabhupada’s authorized 1972 Macmillan Gita and scribbled his changes on the book. He claims his changes are based on early drafts and transcriptions of dictation tapes, before Prabhupada and Hayagriva had worked on it together extensively. But on close examination this claim turns out to be false. There is very little correlation between the so-called original manuscript and Jayadviata’s changes to Prabhupada’s Gita. Even if it was true he was trying to ‘correct’ Srila Prabhupada’s final, authorized, approved Bhagavad-gita As It Is based on first drafts that had later been corrected and edited by Srila Prabhupada himself and his chosen editor Hayagriva. It is outrageous. It is insane. No author wants his final, edited, approved and published book changed back to some early draft or dictation tape.
Anyhow the result was a “Revised and Enlarged” edition of Bhagavad-gita As It Is containing more than one thousand significant changes. The style and feel of the book has completely changed. Hayagriva’s English is beautiful and poetic and Jayadviata’s Engilsh is as you would expect from a high-school dropout. As well as completely destroying the style and feel of the book he made many philosophical changes, some very subtle and others so outrageous that his “Revised and Enlarged” edition, in places, says the exact opposite to what is said by Srila Prabhupada in his original “Complete Edition.” For example Prabhupada’s original Gita (10.34 purport) says:
“One need not read many books on different subject matters; the ability to remember a few and quote them when necessary is another opulence.”
And Jayadvaita obviously does not like this so he changes it to:
“And the ability not only to read many books on different subject matters but to understand them and apply them when necessary is intelligence (medha), another opulence.”
So the “Revised and Enlarged” Gita encourages reading many books on different subject matters and applying them when necessary while Prabhupada’s Gita discourages this. And we can not find this instruction to read many book on different subject matters anywhere else in Prabhupada’s teachings. This is a new teaching, Jayadviata’s teaching, that has appeared for the first time in his “Revised and Enlarged” Bhagavad-gita. He just inserts his teachings, realizations and interpretations into Prabhupada’s books like this whenever he thinks it is appropriate to do so.
I can not very extensively discuss the changes here because there are so many, unlimited, endless changes, not just in Bhagavad-gita, but in many other books. I would ask you to please go towww.BookChanges.com and make a through study of the articles there.
It is amazing. BBTI gives complete freedom to their editors to change anything they want to in Prabhupada’s books. And there are no checks and balances. The editors don’t even have to keep any records of what they change. They don’t have to tell anyone what they change. BBTI put complete and absolute faith in their editors and allow them to change anything and everything in Prabhupada’s books and then they print the changed books without having the slightest idea what has been changed!
This could never happen anywhere except in ISKCON. Can you imagine any organization, spiritual or otherwise, that would let one unsupervised person with no checks and balances whatsoever change whatever he wanted to change in the vital foundational documentation that forms the basis of the organization? It is insane, completely and absolutely and totally insane. This completely and totally destroys the authority of the books currently being printed by BBTI.
After Dravida (another BBTI editor) reedited Srila Prabhupada’s Caitanya-caritamrta by himself with no checks and balances I asked Jayadviata if he was aware of what changes Dravida had made, his reply was “No. I do not know the specific changes, but I know the categories of the changes he made.” So BBTI printed a significantly changed edition of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta without knowing what had been changed!
When questioned about one very radical unauthorized change on the guru issue on page 1 of Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Dravida’s reply was: “What Prabhupada says does not tally with the understanding of guru we currently have in ISKCON… I agonized over this for days… and then decided to change it.”
So “Only BBT” is absolutely out of the question. The unauthorized changed books BBTI are printing carry no authority whatsoever. Even BBTI themselves are unaware of the changes their editors are constantly making to Prabhupada’s books. So no one can know when they are reading a BBTI book if what they are reading is from Prabhupada’s original book or not. No thoughtful person will ever be interested in these unauthorized books. They have purposely implemented a revisionist mentality knowingly in defiance of Srila Prabhupada’s very clear and direct orders not to change his books.
Srila Prabhupada’s original books are now available at www.KrishnaStore.com
Please purchase cases of Srila Prabhupada’s original books at the wholesale prices fromwww.KrishnaStore.com and distribute them to your friends and family and to the general public. The only way we can solve this problem is by widely distributing Srila Prabhupada’s original books. So please take the responsibility for this. The prices are very reasonable and everything you pay for Prabhupada’s original books will go directly into printing more original Prabhupada books.
Also please read the articles at www.BookChanges.com and educate yourself on this issue which is the most vital issue for the future of Srila Prabhupada’s movement and Krishna consciousness.
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!
Your servant
Madhudvisa dasa
It seems that finally the BBT International has been listening to the arguments presented by many concerned devotees and is now taking a step in the right direction by putting Jayadvaita Swami’s name in the edited edition:
Andrew Whitlock wrote in a mail to Jayadvaita Swami:
“Firstly I noticed that Your name does not appear on the re edited version.”
Jayadvaita Swami replied:
“It will appear in the “Note about the Second Edition” in upcoming printings.”
To be completely honest, transparent and follow academic rules Jayadvaita Swami’s name ought to appear on the front cover of the book, so everyone – in advance – will know that this is a posthumously edited book.
An example of how it is supposed to be done is here:
Nice to see the original and authorized Bhagavad-gita As It Is being distributed by an ISKCON swami! The man in the picture receiving the original blessed and authorized Bhagavad-gita is the Governor of the Siem Reap Province of Cambodia, the Honorable H.E. Khim Bunsong!
Let us see more of this!
Posted on dandavats.com:
http://www.dandavats.com/?p=12453
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