ISKCON Censorship in Action

At ISKCON Mayapur a devotee, Jitavrata Dasa, was publicly humiliated for speaking the truth about the book changes. He was asked to stop his vyasa puja offering.

Read the complete vyasa-puja offering below (the part that Jitavrata Prabhu was not able to speak has been marked with bold).

Nama Om Vishnu padaya Krishna prestaya bhutale
Srimate Bhaktivedanta swamin iti namine
namas te Sarasvate deve Gauravani pracarine
nirvisesa sunyavadi pascatya desa tarine

Dear Srila Prabhupada ,

please accept my humble obeisances unto your worshipable Lotus Feet.

You brilliantly shine as the most glorious servant of your Lordship Sri Sri Radha Madhava.

As time goes by, and as ignorance is dispelled, you are appreciated as the most important personality in our movement ,most definitely because you are the founder acharya under whose guidance everyone must abide in order to understand the instructions of the disciplic succession that are within your books.

You are without a doubt the most merciful guru to empower even today whoever takes shelter of your instructions. We all feel very fortunate to be under the shelter at your Lotus feet. They are guiding us back to Godhead beyond the shadow of a doubt.
It is only because of you that we can find the potency to continue your great mission of bringing immortal happiness to the entire world. Your greatest joy is to see your books distributed far and wide, because your books unlock the doors to the treasure house of pure Love of Krishna.

As time goes by, your Divine presence is becoming more intensely felt because we realize that it is only by your mercy that this movement is carrying on. You are everyone’s well wisher and your spiritual attributes are unfathomable.

As ISKCON is your body, you want to see it flourish and grow beyond material limits, in great spiritual happiness and health for all the generations to come. So many nice devotees have joined your movement and are very much eager to serve at your Lotus Feet with great joy.

Please give us the intelligence to not change the bonafide process that you are giving us, as to avoid causing you so many troubles. It was first given by Krishna and has worked wonders millions of years ago, it is still now working so many wonders and will continue to work wonders in the milleniums to come.

As you are the spirit maintaining ISKCON thru sickness and health, please give us the intelligence to understand the supreme importance of protecting all the original English versions of your books that you have personally approved and rendered thereby eternal.
You have compiled these books with great endeavor, choosing each word and sentence very carefully under the full guidance of Lord Krishna sitting next to you. Your very specific combination of words acts like a powerful mantra to cut thru the illusory energy of Maya and revive our remembrance of Krishna

By changing these word arrangements thinking to know English better than you is the greatest offense as it removes the bonafide value of your writings. You taught us that 5 things permits Kali’s influence to infiltrate our consciousness. Meat eating, intoxication, gambling, illicit sex and if all four are absent then Kali is allowed to reside where there is hording of gold. Our biggest protection is the chanting of a minimum of 16 rounds every day, and keeping the association of the devotees. These simple instructions if carefully practiced will protect us from down falls.

You told Rameswara your BBT Trustee that your greatest fear was that after your departure, bonafide instructions will be taken out of your books and non bonafide things will be introduced, that is why you strictly forbade any book changes and you really made this instruction very clear to him. Unfortunately Rameswara left after a series of unfortunate events and even though these instructions were left in writing when Rameswara was interviewed for the production of your Lilamrta, that interview was never utilized and simply sat in the archives forgotten for over 30 years. As the enemy is invisible but its influence can be seen. Kali has infiltrated somehow or other,maybe someone is hording some gold or breaking the principles who really knows, but somehow Kali has found a way to modify your books, making it look seemingly harmless, claiming the changes will be closer to what you really meant , but Kali has in fact opened wide the doors for future changes. Next Kali will make us believe that watering down the philosophy will greatly increase our membership among those who are especially angry that you are just too strict and conservative with your principles, so better make a few compromises, where is the harm? And then Kali will tell us next that there is no need to chant Jaya Prabhupada , it is not necessary . Kali’s goal is to really minimize your importance and gradually take you out of the picture .Kali says” no no a little book change that is alright,where is the harm we are making the books better, Prabhupada didn’t know how to speak english we are just helping him out especially since now we even know sanskrit better than him”. Is this why you emphatically stressed no book changes,as you could foresee these attacks from the fox like Kali?

Rameswara Prabhu , has witnessed first hand your reactions over some changes the press was planning for your books. He was coming of course to get your approval as you always personally directed every details of your books publications. He saw how very angry you were when presented with so called book changes for the seemingly better, and that was the most frightening experience Rameswara ever had to see you this angry ,he felt very similar to what Hiranyakasipu felt when he saw Lord Nrisimhadeva. Hiranyakasipu was actually so scared that he fought the Lord with his eyes closed. You repeatedly told Rameswara that you do not want your books changed. You also told Hayagriva your editor in 1972 that you had approved all the verses in the Bhagavad Gita and that there was no need to change any of them, that once approved they are eternal. Rameswara carefully noted down all the details of these super heavy lessons and in 1979 he gave a long interview for the Lilamrta describing everything that happened . He had never seen anyone so angry, There were also many others who were involved with the press like Radhaballava das , Bali Mardana, your BBT artists and various editors who received your clear instructions about not changing your books except for the few absolutely needed corrections. When we finished the Chaitanya Caritamrta marathon in 75, Rameswara told you afterwards that in the subsequent printing the finished paintings would replace the unfinished ones. You said no, no book changes, but Prabhupada he said we are just putting the finished paintings in , they are the same paintings .but three times you forbade him to do so, because you wanted to stress and emphasize that no matter how good the reasons seems to be, you did not want your books changed, once approved they are eternal.

But now we see that so many changes have been made, your very clear instructions on this matter have been forgotten in the archives for more than 30 years and as they are now seeing the light of the day we are faced with the difficult task of undoing this blunder, difficult because Kali has brainwashed us and anyone who criticizes these changes is shown the door . Kali ‘s might is right and devotees are scared to talk about this ,because they don’t want to be kicked out of ISKCON. So what to do?
We want to correct these transgressions from your orders so that we may qualify to be the recipients of your full mercy .

This is why we pray at your lotus feet to please give us the intelligence to understand how you are too monumentally big for anyone to correct your books . What you wrote was already approved by you, and you did not want it changed in any ways. Please give ISKCON at large the spiritual intelligence to understand this principle of arsa- prayoga. I do not see how we can get your mercy while keeping you in an angry mood over the changing of your books, this is the most serious offense to think that we can touch your writings. Please consider our ignorance and we beg you to please enlighten those who do not see the evil in these activities. Your books are worshipable deities being non different than Bhagavan Sri Krishna and we know them to contain all of your devotional ecstasies. In the first Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam , Chapter five, the verse of text eleven says: On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes , etc. , of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world’s misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest. The original English version of your books are the seed mantra to all worldwide translations of your books, the ultimate reference in authenticity, that anyone could refer to. What will scholars think when they find out your books were tampered with, they will refuse to study the bogus ones.

No outside influence can stop your ISKCON, but to allow from within that your books may be modified is non different than killing you. You said that you live eternally in your books, but if they are modified then they are no longer your books, Kali has found a way of silencing you by playing the changing game to suit its evil purposes while still presently hiding behind your good name.Do we need to form a Ksatriya force to keep this Kali at bay? Please Srila Prabhupada give us the intelligence to see clearly, guide us on the right path, and inspire your BBT to print all your original versions once again. But I see hope in the horizon , happy days are returning because of your Jayapataka Swami who is getting his visa extended for his visit on this earth, all by the mercy of Lord Nrisimhadeva and by the mercy of his disciples, so that he may finish your big plans for Mayapur. Rameswara your great book distribution general is coming back to hopefully retire in Mayapur. Please illuminate their hearts with your full splendor and please kick Kali far away. Allow us to remain very close to you Srila Prabhupada , let your instruction of no book changes be known in ISKCON at large. Let the truth of your instructions shine. Let us all work united under you, under your unchangeable immortal instructions.

Jaya Sri Sri Radha Madhava,
Jaya Supremely powerful Lord Nrisimhadeva,
Jaya O most merciful Sri Sri Panca tattva,
Jaya o most magnanimous Srila Prabhupada!

Your worthless dog
Jitavrata das

 

E-BOOK: Arsa-Prayoga: Preserving Srila Prabhupada’s Legacy

Almost 400 pages about the changes made to Srila Prabhupada’s books.

Arsa-Prayoga Book

Click picture to visit website

From the back cover:

“Arsa prayoga, lit. “rishi’s license,” means to honour the acarya by preserving his teachings in the originally published form, not changing what he has written to make it appear more effective or politically correct. There should be no confusion between the work written by His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada and edited by Howard Wheeler and the posthumous cent per cent revised copy proposed by Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. By changing Prabhupada’s books without explicitly saying so, they do a discredit to Srila Prabhupada, devotees and scholars. At present it appears that the revisions were made by the original author. This book is meant to be the truth about the editing of Prabhupada’s books carefully chronicled for future generations.”

Go directly to download page: arsaprayogabook.com/book

Ramesvara Prabhu Speaks About the Paintings in Srila Prabhupada’s Books

Ramesvara Prabhu here speaks about the amazing transcendental pastime of creating the many paintings in Srila Prabhupada’s books – especially the Krishna Book.

He explains how Srila Prabhupada often gave personal instructions to each artist regarding the specific paintings they made.

Unfortunately almost all these transcendental paintings have been removed from Srila Prabhupada’s books and replaced with other paintings that were not made under Srila Prabhupada’s supervision and authorization.

Confidential E-mails From Ramesvara Leaked (Dec. 2014)

Just recently three confidential e-mails were leaked and posted on facebook. They reveal what Ramesvara Prabhu thinks about the changes made the Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita, the editing policies of the BBTI and they shed light on what happened when the GBC and BBT trustees “reviewed” the 83 Gita. ramesvara1 Below are some quotes that will rock the boat, but please visit the website at the end of this article to see all three e-mails in their entirety and thus get the full picture. Quotes From confidential email no. 1:

“The problem with the “Responsible Publishing” paper is that it is simply not the entire body of instruction, and it‘s critics point out that it is one-sided and obviously leaves out many of Prabhupada’s cautionary instructions against unnecessary change,”

[…]

“That analysis with Dravida Prabhu left me with my deepest concern: if the changes didn’t have substantial merit but were made anyway, then regardless of the justification of “making it better” the door, the “change disease” as Srila Prabhupada called it, had been dangerously opened for anything to happen in the future after we are all long gone.”

[…]

“The Lilamrita interviews I found tell of Srila Prabhupada’s direct instructions regarding the size of the books, the artwork to be kept in the books, etc. – things that have already been changed so many times in the past 20 years, without understanding of Prabhupada’s orders, that it makes the “official” opening of this “change” door more ominous for the future, in ways we can’t even imagine.”

[…]

“…an absolute position has to be reached so that before we die, we know that within the BBT and ISKCON there could never again be one single change, for any reason, ever made to Srila Prabhupada’s books.”

From confidential e-mail no. 2:

“The “Responsible Publishing” (RP) paper has either a significant misleading or a significant historical inaccuracy. There are sites which claim to list more than 5,000 changes. Certainly there were thousands of changes. The RP paper states that every change to the translations was reviewed and approved by the Trustees, leading ISKCON devotees, the CBC, etc. Later the RP cites or implies in its endorsements that all the changes were approved. Of course, NO ONE other than the editors ever saw back in 1981 or 1982 ALL the changes.”

[…]

“I have always admitted that my great failure as a trustee was not carefully reading every proposed change, and instead, relying on the endorsement of Hridayananda and Satsvarupa- along with Jayadvaita.”

[…]

“I know that in talking years ago with others on that committee, that they also admitted performing only a cursory review of the proposed changes,…”

[…]

“No one back then did their job or acted with full responsibility for what they were endorsing. l assure you that NO ONE on that Committee ever even asked to see all the changes, and we would have been astounded to have learned in 1981 or 1982 that there were thousands, maybe more than 5,000 changes. I lazily assumed that the work done on manuscripts as close to the original as possible was the only thing that mattered. I failed to consider all the other Prabhupada instructions, the ramifications for making changes if they didn’t ultimately change the meaning; the effect of changes that in some cases loses the flavor of the Gita we had been studying for 10 years, and most importantly, that breaks the etiquette of changing a Sampradaya Acaraya’s books after His disappearance and opens the “change door” for possible future other changes over the decades and centuries to come. The RP paper implies that the changes were carefully reviewed and approved throughout the leadership of the BBT, GBC and ISKCON. I am certain that by interviewing all the leaders of that time, we would find most guilty of the same mistake that i made. It is true to state that the leaders of ISKCON at the time endorsed the changes. However, it is overtly misleading to state or suggest that the leaders actually performed a careful review. And getting back to the fact that there are thousands of changes, no leader, including the BBT Trustees, was ever shown every single change. No one! That is the sad historical fact…”

From confidential e-mail no. 3:

“I find it embarrassing that on the site BBTEdit.com, in the section about editing posthumously, the only quote to support touching the works of a departed Acarya is that Srila Jiva Goswami was working posthumously on Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu. Seriously – how can any living entity compare themselves to Sri Jiva Goswami, or think because he touched the work of Sri Rupa Gosvami, therefore an editor in the lower stages of bhakti, not yet fully situated in the perfected stages of bhava (what to Speak of prema) can touch and change the words of a departed Sampradaya Acarya. Not a good example in my lowly View – it begs the question of What our editors think of themselves and their level of Krsna Consciousness. Oh well…”

Please find all the three e-mails in their entirety here: http://jayasrikrishna.weebly.com (PDF and Word). You can also see and download the e-mails here as PDF and Word.

At that time your position is different! (BBTI’s main argument defeated)

sp-painting1

BY: BHAKTA TORBEN (From Sampradaya Sun)

Apr 18, 2014 — DENMARK (SUN) — The common arguments from the so-called BBT, “BBTI”:

“And in the conversation where Srila Prabhupada complained so strongly about “rascals editors,” Srila Prabhupada said about Jayadvaita, “He is good.”

“Of course, regarding Jayadvaita Swami, the BBT’s chief editor, Srila Prabhupada wrote, “Concerning the editing of Jayadvaita Prabhu, whatever he does is approved by me. I have confidence in him.” (letter to Radhavallabha, 7 September 1976)

(From BBT International’s website)

NOW LISTEN PLEASE:

Prabhupada: I have given you charge of this BBT, millions of dollars you are dealing, but it is not for your misuse. As soon as you misuse, that is your responsibility.

Ramesvara: Yes, but he says but still, you’ll know that I’m going to misuse it.

Prabhupada: No. That Krsna knows, when something charge is given. But because you are independent, I know that “Ramesvara is very good boy; let him be in charge.” But you can misuse at any moment, because you have got independence. You can misuse at any moment. At that time your position is different.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk — June 3, 1976, Los Angeles

(Morning Walk — June 3, 1976, Los Angeles)

This very important snippet is from a missing audio exchange, from a not properly (actually cutout) transcribed morning walk conversation. (That´s another issue in itself).

So the conclusion MUST be that the above two arguments for the continued post-samadhi editing of Jayadvaita Swami & Co. are CONDITIONAL. They are NOT absolute green lights from Srila Prabhupada to Jayadvaita Maharaj, at all.

ys. Bhakta Torben, Denmark.

PS: Instead of the missing audio, there is ANOTHER audio, which is also very interesting, but not transcribed. Check it out.

New video with Ramesvara Prabhu from “Prabhupada Memories” about the book changes

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The Change Disease and Windows to the Spiritual Sky

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Skærmbillede 2013-10-11 kl. 10.00.12

44 deleted color plates

By Rupanuga Dasa (originally posted on the Sampradaya Sun)

When Srila Prabhupada signed the final version of the Macmillan contract for his Complete Edition of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is published in 1972, it included certain additions he made in the following section of that contract:

Competitive Material
XII. During the term of this agreement the Author shall not publish or permit the publication of any material written in whole or in part by him that is derived from or competitive to the Work or the rights herein granted without the prior written consent of the publisher. [Then Srila Prabhupada added]: except for Back-to-Godhead Magazine, and any present or future works using the Work as reference, as well as the 48 pages of illustrations for which the Author reserves the right to publish for any purpose he may determine.

Srila Prabhupada made other notations also, including his right as Author to translate into foreign languages if the publisher failed to do so within 18 months. He then signed as the Author. The contract was dated March 6, 1972 and countersigned by the ISKCON representative, “Rupanuga das Adhikary”.

That new Gita was to prove big and heavy and only so many could be crammed into a bookbag, but people were to become immediately attracted to the gorgeous, colorful paintings; besides, where could they find such a book with so many color illustrations, and for how much? It was Srila Prabhupada’s transcendent genius to conceive of such a way to reveal to people the deepest philosophy and the highest truths comprehensible to human beings. No other volume of supposed philosophical content could compare to that Gita, decorated as it was with paintings allowing a view of the Spiritual Sky. Along with Prasadam, those paintings were Srila Prabhupada’s secret weapons.

Continue reading

Cover Up

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By Bhakta Torben Nielsen

(This was originally posted in the Sampradaya Sun.)

bg-cover-original

Here in Denmark we have a “new” version of Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita As It Is (supposedly), coming up. One of the editors, Jahnu/Jahnudvipa prabhu, publicized his suggestion for a front cover (pictured below). As everyone can see, by comparison, it is different, in so many ways, from Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita As It Is. This is a local example, but from research on the Internet, it is easily seen how widespread this corruption is.

Srila Prabhupada:

“And the covers, if possible, should always be the same for each respective book regardless of what language it may be printed in.” (Letter to Jadurani, Bombay, January 3, 1975)

“Regarding Bhagavad-gita, enlarged edition, the picture approved by me to Jadurani is all right.” (Letter to: Satsvarupa – Los Angeles 31 July, 1970)

A subsequent “debate” on editor Jahnu’s suggestion of a Bhagavad-gita cover was quickly censored, including Jahnu’s picture. The topic was banned, as there is a stricture on that facebook forum (Krishna.dk) not to bring up “institutional”, “controversial” or “negative” material.

The idiotic irony is that bringing up the topic is “controversial” and forbidden – but DOING these things, changing the books, is fine.

jahnus-cover-bg-1

Jahnu’s Suggested Bhagavad-gita cover

______________________________________________

A few comments from Ajit Krishna Dasa (not featured in the post at Sampradaya Sun)

It is truly astonishing to see the amount of mistakes on this suggested cover:

  • Bhagavad-gita is not spelled with capital “G” in “gita, but with a small “g”.

Prabhupada says:

“Regarding the listing of the Bhagavad-gita in the religion catalog of MacMillan, they have spelled it Bhagavid Gita and not Bhagavad-gita As It Is. I do not know why they should commit such mistake, I hope that this will not hamper the sales. Please point out this discrepancy to Mr. Wade.” (Letter to Brahmananda, Los Angeles, 19 December, 1968)

  • Over the “i” and the “g” there should be a line. That could be excused if this is not the final version, and the sanskrit will be added later.
  • On the original it says “As It Is”. In Jahnu’s this is changed to only capital letters “SOM DEN ER”.
  • On the original books it says “His Divine grace”. On Jahnu’s we find “Sri Srimad A.C…”
  • Regarding the artwork itself. Prabhupada was happy about the front cover of his 1972 edition. He approved it. He never asked for it to be changed at any point. The original cover is shining, it gives the impression of heroism, chivalry and fighting for the right cause. The colors on Jahnu’s cover is dark, boring and depressing. Prabhupada said that if a painting should be changed it should be the exact same scene, but made better (read more about this here). On Jahnu’s cover we find a different scene, and the dark and depressing colors certainly does’nt make it better.

I find it truly astonishing how a BBT International editor like Jahnu, who has been working for BBT(I) for more than 20 years, doesn’t know or care about the clear instructions from Srila Prabhupada regarding front covers, artwork and text-editing. The amount of speculation Jahnu puts into his cover is amazing.

Ramesvara Dasa speaks about his 1979 interview

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Ramesvara Prabhu writes about the recently discovered interview with him from 1979-1980 made for the Prabhupada Lilamrta:

Ramesvara-sharp-memory-tiff

And:

ramesvara-editing-facebook-tiff

If Ramesvara Prabhu have not already given the above information to the BBT International we hope he will do so soon. How can we change paintings that Prabhupada personally designed?

Here is the text:

“Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I was very surprised to discover that the full unedited transcript of my Prabhupada Lilamrita memory interviews in 1979-1980 survived and were discovered during a visit to the Bhaktivedanta Archives in 2012. These recollections were given when my memory of Srila Prabhupada was fresh and sharp. Kindly excuse any deficiencies in this recounting. I beg to remain your aspiring servant, ramesvara dasa” (Facebook update from Robert Grant (Ramesvara Dasa) 09.07.2013)

and…

“Dear Respected Prabhus, Pamho, AGTSP!
The total body of instructions given by Srila Prabhupada about editing his divine books go far beyond these few recollections. I would draw your attention however to Srila Prabhupada’s selection of art paintings published in his books. What many may not know is that His Divine Grace, planned, and in many cases personally designed the paintings in The Krsna Books and the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, even going as far as sometime sending a line drawing sketch of his own to the artists. Under his divine direction, and being empowered by him, devotional artistic abilities were awakened in his artists. Being thus empowered by his order, they produced 63 paintings for the Krsna Books in one year, and more than 50 paintings for Bhagavad Gita As It Is in one year. The full story of Srila Prabhupada creating ISKCON Press and getting this divine production out of literally a handful of surrendered artist disciples is a true miracle, as amazing as any other marathon in ISKCON history! Your aspiring servant, Ramesvara dasa” (Facebook comment from Robert Grant (Ramesvara Dasa) 09.07.2013)

Debate with Jahnu Dasa (editor for BBT International) on the book changes

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The below debate took place on Govinda Dasi’s Facebook profile in May 2013. It is mainly a debate between Jahnu Das aka. Jahnu Dvipa Dasa who is editor for BBT International on one side and Kim Møller, Torben Nielsen and Ajit Krishna Dasa on the other side.

Jahnu Das is from Denmark but now lives in Mayapur where he is engaged in translating BBT International’s 1983-edition of Bhagavad-gita in collaboration with Lalitanath Dasa. Even though informed about all the arguments against the book changes, they are still intent on doing this job dispite the outcry of many Danish devotees who are concerned about the editing of Prabhupada’s already authorized books.

Jahnu Das used to be disciple of Harikesh Swami (who started BBT International and was behind the closing of Prabhupada’s original BBT). After Harikesh Swami’s fall he took reinitiating from Jayapataka Swami.

In the below I have deleted postings unrelated to the debate going on between Jahnu Das, Kim Møller, Torben and myself, Ajit Krishna Dasa. I have also deleted certain elements from Facebook such as “like” buttons, dates etc.

A link to the following article was posted on Govinda Dasi’s Facebook profile: Jayadvaita is Wrong — still he insists on justifying his blunders? (article by Govinda Dasi)

 Jahnu Das Personally, I have infinite more faith in a staunch follower of Srila Prabhupada like Jayadvaita Swami, than those who criticise him…
 Kim Møller That Jahnuji think its oki for Jayadvaita Swami to change Srila Prabhupadas books and still calling him a “staunch follower” can come as no surprice since he must be loyal due to himself translating from these changed books. However there are tons of substantial evidence from both shastra and Srila Prabhupada Himself to the fact, that you can NOT change in Acaryas litterature and forsure Prabhupada never gave any order to continue this change disease forever after His demise. Prabhupada clearly stated that you cant change a singel word, even if there is a mistake, its called “arsha prayoga”
 Jahnu Das Srila Prabhupada personally asked Jayadvaita Swami to edit his books. Maharaja has a web-page, where he thoroughly explains and justifies each and everyone of his corrections and rationally points out the editorial mistakes of the previous versions of Srila Prabhupada’s books. To say that Srila Prabhupada’s books should not be edited at all is just plain dumb and not what Srila Prabhupada instructed his editors to do.
 Kim Møller Prabhupada gave the edit service to several devotees which does not indicate that they must continue to change His book in an on going flow, a few obvious corrections can be accepted, but this massive change is simply out og hand. And to this web-page Jahnu Prabhu mentions, every singel so called justification has step by step been refuted, the claim that Hayagriva didnt consult SP personaly also was refuted since both Hayagrivas own book gave other evidence and also from Brahmananda Prabhu and Govinda Dasi came other evidence and the so called “original manuscript” turned out to be a hoaxy attempt. Jayadvaita Swami him self have admitted that Prabhupada never told him to continue edit and change His books after demise. Lets not forget Prabhupada accepted, loved and preached from His original books, so my humble suggestion is that it is simply plain dumb to think we can do a better job.
 Jahnu Das You mean, ‘the planet of the trees’ being changed back to ‘the planet of the pitrs’ has been refuted? hahaha:)
 Kim Møller That is a minor thing, like i said, a few obvious mistakes can be corrected, but not this on going massive change.
 Jahnu Das So give an example of such massive changes. Lets hear it…
 Kim Møller Why comment on changes when they are forbitten by guru sadhu shastra in the first place, its called ARSHA PRAYOGA you cannot change a single word, even if there is a mistake. So it would be foolish to talk about these changes at all, plain logic.
 Jahnu Das IOW, you don’t know what you are talking about, when you say ‘massive ongoing changes.’
 Jahnu Das IOW, when you say ‘massive ongoing changes’ you don’t know what you are talking about.
 Kim Møller Well its pretty hard to avoid Jahnuji, one must be really blind if that is not obvius
 Jahnu Das I don’t see anything in that link that warrants your statement – massive ongoing changes. Maybe you can help, give us just one example of such massive ongoing changes.
 Jahnu Das The Danish phrase ’empty barrels make the most noise’ comes to mind
 Kim Møller You dont get it Jahnu Prabhu, simply dont change anything because it is an offence to Acarya to do so after His demise, so why talk about the changes at all when it is forbitten (ps. that was not my link  )
 Torben Nielsen Try to at look “Arsha Prayoga“- site in Denmark, Jahnu prabhu. Your own birthcountry. This is so obvious that you have to willfully deny it. Maybe it has to do with the fact that you, Jahnu prabhu, is translating the Gita into Danish from the unauthorized Jayadvaita Swami edition?

 Kim Møller Because of lack of argument no need to be offensive although i agree, im just an empty barrel.

 Jahnu Das In my mind, to accuse JAS of changing the message of Prabhupada’s books, like these critics do, now THAT’s offensive – especially when they cannot give one single example to back up their blitherings.
 Kim Møller You want eksample to the fact that you cannot change Acaryas litterature ???
 Kim Møller No problem!!!
 Jahnu Das I think we have established that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
 Kim Møller You have not established much my dear friend
 Torben Nielsen We invite you, dear Jahnu Prabhu, to come to the site “Arsha Prayog” , in your own language even. You´ll get plenty of evidence there.
 Torben Nielsen But you seem to run away every time you get some opposition.
 Torben Nielsen It is a standing invitation.
 Torben Nielsen Also to Lalitanath prabhu, who is your co-editor.
 Ray Berry Once again Srila Prabhupada speaks about changing the printed words of the Spritual authority;
Raddha-vallabha: Now Jagannātha had some questions on corrections in the book. In verse twenty-eight it says, “Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn.”
Prabhupāda: Where it is? Brahma-saṁhitā?
Rādhā-vallabha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Rādhā-vallabha: So it says, “Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the essence of all Vedas, with this hymn.”
Prabhupāda: Where it is?
Rādhā-vallabha: It’s verse twenty-eight, “Then he worshiped Śrī Kṛṣṇa.” So Jagannātha said it should be, “Then he worshiped…”
Prabhupāda: No, no. Jagannātha cannot correct. That bad habit he must give up.
Rādhā-vallabha: So we should just leave it exactly.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You should not be more educated.
Rādhā-vallabha: He wasn’t changing any of the words. He was just…
Prabhupāda: Nothing of the… This of should be strictly forbidden.
Rādhā-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.
Prabhupāda: They can divide the synonyms. That’s all.
Rādhā-vallabha: Synonyms. So even…
Prabhupāda: That is his tendency, to correct. That’s very bad. He should not do that.
Rādhā-vallabha: So I’ll just forget this, then.
Prabhupāda: The system is: whatever authority has done, even there is mistake, it should be accepted.
Rādhā-vallabha: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Asa-prāya(?) That is ha… He should not become more learned than the authority. That is very bad habit.
Rādhā-vallabha: He was always wondering how he should think. So I’ll tell him that. He thinks, “If I think I see a mistake, what should I think?” I’ll tell him what you just said.
Prabhupāda: He cannot see mistake. He is mistake. (laughter) He should… That is being done by this rascal. I don’t want.
Srila Prabhupada’s Room Conversation — February 27, 1977, Mayapura
 Torben Nielsen Why? It´s spiritual.
 Torben Nielsen It is a standing invitation, Jahnu.
 Torben Nielsen I can hear an echo from that barrel, jahnu, ahnu, ahnu, nu, u, u
 Kris Pawlak Srila Prabhupāda:” The system is: whatever authority has done, even there is mistake, it should be accepted.” that is a great standard, we should treat all these mistakes with respect, but we should still realize them for what they are. Minor mistakes do not detract from the core message.
 Kim Møller Even if transcendental literature is written in faulty language, it is acceptable if it is written by a devotee.Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 8.39
 Kim Møller Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 12.150 – The Cleansing of the Gundica Temple:”This is a matter of etiquette. If a previous acarya has already written about something, there is no need to repeat it for personal sense gratification or to outdo the previous acarya. Unless there is some definite improvement, one should not repeat.”
 Jahnu Das The simple fact remains that Srila Prabhupada requested his disciples to edit his books so they would be presentable to academics and other educated people
 Kim Møller Ehhh “simpel fact” where is this fact?? where is the quote saying; you continue edit my books for academics after my demise ? The books that the academic community was so impressed from, that He was so proud of, that dragged thousands of people to Krishna consciousness, books that are standart teaching material in universities. Before they went to printing he wanted them edited of course and they were (also for academic) by Hayagriva who is academic, in all respect, Jayadvaita Swami is not. Lets not forget the quotation is there saying; Actually i wrote these book for my disciples. However lets see the quote Jahnu Prabhu.
“They’re ruining my books.” — Srila Prabhupada
bookchanges.comThe greatest anxiety Srila Prabhupada has is that after he’s gone we will add things to his books that are bogus, we will take things out that are bona fide, we will make changes in his books and the whole work for 10,000 years, his plan Prabhupada was working on, it will all be spoiled by us becaus…

To Edit or Not To Edit – That Is The Question
bookchanges.comThe book editing issue is a very serious one, perhaps the most serious issue in ISKCON today. I have seen the attractive and seemingly authentic website promoting these changes, but most of it is propaganda, a lot of it based on speculation of what took place. It is most unfortunate that this has oc…
 Kim Møller . Even though such literature is presented in broken language or grammatical inconsistency or rhetorical irregularity, still, those who are saintly persons adore such literature. They hear such literature, and chant it and adore it, simply because the Supreme Lord is being glorified in this literature. In other words, we are not meant for presenting any literary masterpieces, but we have to inform people that there is a fire of maya which is burning the very vitality of all living entities, and they should guard against the indefatigable onslaught of material existence. That should be our motto. (Letter to: Krsna dasa – Los Angeles 13 Feb, 1969)
 Kim Møller I also do not like too much editorial work. This too much editorial work on Geetopanishad has created some misunderstanding between the members of the editorial staff. Anyway, in the future one man should edit it, and that will be sufficient for our printing. And I do not want that Teachings of Lord Chaitanya should be edited again and typed again and time wasted in that way. I have also informed Rayrama of this, and you can also inform him like this. The book should be printed immediately, without any waste of time. That is my desire. (Letter to Satsvarupa, Dec 23, 1967)
 Kim Møller Can it be more clear ??
 Jahnu Das Still, Srila Prabhupada asked his disciples to edit his books so they would be presentable to an ‘educated’ audience. He gave Jayadvaita Swami carte blanche to make any changes he deemed necessary to that end.
 Kim Møller Lets see the quote and take it from there
Jahnu Das I have it personally from Maharaja. Are you calling him a liar?
 Kim Møller Maharaja can say what he want, if we do not have it from Prabhupada it has no value, otherwise anybody can say anything, anyway this is only third hand info and so with out value, we need confirmation from source namely His Divine Grace AC Bhativedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada
 Jahnu Das I begin to understand why you have not received initiation even after your 20+ years of contact with ISKCON  Need I remind you, that everything you know about Prabhupada you know by the mercy of his disciples?
 Ajit Krishna Dasa Yes, either JAS is a liar or all the people who got the opposite instructions are liars. We now have black and white: NO CHANGES!
 Ajit Krishna Dasa Jahnu writes that he has it personally from maharaja! That is not strong evidence at all. Strong evidence are the direct statements by Prabhupada. On top of that we have all the instruction from Ramesvara Prabhu, Govinda Dasi and others who contradict JAS’ statements.
 Jahnu Das That goes for you, too. If it wasn’t for Prabhupada’s disciples we wouldn’t know anything about Krishna, Srila Prabhupada or his books.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa And we do not need to find massive changes. Prabhupada became furious even over very small changes!
 Jahnu Das Still he asked his disciples to edit his books so they would be acceptable by so-called educated people.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa So what? That is not related to this issue!
 Ajit Krishna Dasa I could have gotten something much better if the BBTI hadn’t changed the books! Then I could have made even more progress.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa He never asked them to change AFTER his departure. He asked them not to change anything. We have reference on that – many many references.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa Jahnu, you are talking about initiation – are you initiated? What is the qualification of a guru?
 Kim Møller May i remind Jahnu that everything i know about Krsna i due to Srila Prabhupada and His potencies and as a reminder, Jahnu do not know about my initiation into Gaudia Vaisnavaisem, he is just guessing again *LOL*
 Jahnu Das Do I need to remind you, that if it wasn’t for the diligent work of Srila Prabhupada’s disciples, you would never have heard of Krishna, Srila Prabhupada or his books?
 Ajit Krishna Dasa Jahnu, so are ALL Prabhupada disciple correct? Just because they gave us mercy, doe it then follow logically that they must be correct? If yes, then why do they differ on the matter of the book changes? Which Prabhupada disciples should we listen to? Even better that a discussion about that would be for you to put forward som LOGICAL arguments for your case.
 Kim Møller Its all due to Srila Prabhupada, if it wasnt for Him no books no Krsna, but yes some fine disciples assisted him, but thats not the point Jahnuji, stick to the point my dear friend and not divert the topic
 Jahnu Das Actually, I think it is Rupa Goswami who advises us to not take part when there are disagreements between groups of superior Vaishnavas.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa As far as I know: If a disciple lies to his godbrothers by telling them that their diksa-gura elected him to be acarya (a pure devotee mahabhagavata) when that in fact was not the case, then he can not be a guru. In fact by doing this he is revealing he is an offensive kanistha. Now you put 2 and 2 together.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa Jahnu, so why are you taking part? You have been taking part for more than 20 years now. So I guess you are the last one to refer to such a quote by Rupa Goswami. Secondly, you are arguing in circles, since the very topic for this debate includes a discussion about WHETHER OR NOT these editors are actually superior. I say they are not.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa Jahnu is GETTING PAID by the BBT International despite Prabhupada’s clear instructions on the matter:”in 1974 we had , at the Mayapur festival , we had decided that we were going to give Acyutananda Swami some royalty for writing the songbook . And with that royalty he was going to use it to preach in South India which was his preaching field . Prabhupada found out about it and was furious . Just furious . He said , “No one in the BBT gets a royalty , even myself. Why he has written something , he get s a royalty? ” And Prabhupada was so angry over this principle that nobody can take a royalty for himself from the BBT , even if he ‘ s going to use it for Krsna, it doesn’t matter. So on this principle he was very angry and he forced Acyutananda to turn in all the money.” (Ramesvara Dasa)There are more quotes like that.So Jahnu Das has vested interests is promoting Jayadvaita Swami and the book changes. Jahnu is himself translating the unauthorised 1983 edition of the gita into Danish.
 Jahnu Das I never received so much as a penny from the BBT
 Ajit Krishna Dasa Okay, fair enough! I apologize if that is the case. But that is not what I have heard from other Danish devotees.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa The arguments on the website of BBT International have been debunked. The most blatant fault of the BBT International that they think they should go back to first drafts. Of course you never go back the draft without the permission of the author. Especially when you do not know enough about how the author worked personally with an editor to come from the draft to the end product.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa The new interviews with Ramesvara Prabhu ought to be the final nail in the BBT International’s coffin. The debate is over. Admit defeat. Apologize to everyone, especially Prabhupada. And let us work together in a loving spirit to spread Prabhupada’s books, As They Really Are.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa “The first of many experiences I’ve had with Prabhupada literally drilling me , pounding it into my head that you’re never allowed to change anything in his books. He trained me so intensely on this point. Even when the changes make sense he wouldn’t let me change. Just to train me.” (Ramesvara Dasa)
 Kim Møller And from the same text: “Prabhupada just explained how everyone’s a rascal for daring to touch anything in his books. The greatest anxiety he has is that after he’s gone we will add things to his books that are bogus, we will take things out that are bona fide, we will make changes in his books and the whole work for 10,000 years, his plan Prabhupada was working on, it will all be spoiled by us because of our tendency to change. And Prabhupada gave an example that the disease to do things differently is so inherent in the Americans that for the sake of doing things differently we would walk on our hands rather than our feet.”(Ramesvara Dasa, Interview, 1979)
 Kim Møller So here it is again, the thing that we think we can do a better job than Prabhupada for academics is simply bogus. More from Ramesvara Dasa: He (Satsvarup Maharaja)organized world-wide l ibrary distribution onevery continent and he changed the whole face of our movement . He single-handedly , this party gained unlimited respect for our movement, tremendous support and recognition from the leading scholars and theologians in the world , the leading universities in the world, and our movement was overnight practically recognized as bona fide . The relationships with the professon became one of our most valuable assets . It was just the momentum from this initial start just flooded America and Europe and India . There ‘ s no way to describe the joy that Prabhupada derived . He made a special note of it at the end
of his Caitanya-caritamrtas in the concluding words that he wrote , at the end of the Antya . S when it was finished . In the last paragraph he expres ses his deepest thanks and gratitude to the scholars of the world who are reading his books and appreciating them . So there ‘ s just so much pleasure that we saw Prabhupada deriving from the book distribution up to this point and now simultaneous with the on-going development of the regular book distribution and the spreading of it to other zones was now this new Library Party . So all of these things were just filling Prabhupada with so much happiness and his
disciples were hearing of this ecstasy , getting letters from him, and knowing that this was the most dearest thing to their spiritual master spurred them on to unbelievable sacrifices.
 Ajit Krishna Dasa What about the incorrect grammar? “Prabhupada’s reply, “You cannot change one comma ,not even a comma, not even a punctuation mark , that is the etiquette .” So that was just another one of those super heavy instructions that the etiquette in dealing with a great acarya’s books is that whatever he has done it’s eternal and it can never be changed. And I believe that all of this was part of Prabhupada’s training us . He wanted to train people who would be entrusted with his books .(Ramesvara Dasa, Interview, 1979)
bookchanges.com
Soon after the intense marathon for completing the publication of Caitanya Caritamrita, Radhaballabha prabhu approached Srila Prabhupada and mentioned that the artists are now completing the paintings in preparation for the second printing. To this, Srila Prabhupada replied “NO changes”.

Without explaining why Jahnu Das left the debate at this point.