Category Archives: Bhakta Torben Nielsen

08.12.14
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Small Word, Big Difference (Bg. 12.2 p.)

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BY: BHAKTA TORBEN (From Sampradaya Sun)

Aug 11, 2014 — DENMARK (SUN) —

An essential esoteric point is lost in this speculative edit:

“For one in such Krsna consciousness there are no material activities because everything is done BY Krsna.”
(Bhagavad-gita As It Is, Original 1972 Macmillan 12.2 purport)

“For one in such Krsna consciousness there are no material activities because everything is done BY Krishna.”
(Original manuscript)

Screen Shot 2014-08-09 at 20.47.25

“For one in such Krishna consciousness there are no material activities because everything is done FOR Krishna.”
(The changed Bhagavad-gita by Jayadvaita Swami)

This video clip with the Prabhupada-disciple Bhagavat prabhu further illustrates the point:

“When I sit here to write, Krsna comes personally. He dictates to me what to write. I take dictation from Krsna and I write these books.” ~ HDG Srila Prabhupada
(As told by Bhagavat das)

There is also this popular quote:

Guru Das: “Prabhupada, you’re laughing at your own books.”

Prabhupada: “I did not write these books, Krsna wrote them!”

04.19.14
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At that time your position is different! (BBTI’s main argument defeated)

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BY: BHAKTA TORBEN (From Sampradaya Sun)

Apr 18, 2014 — DENMARK (SUN) — The common arguments from the so-called BBT, “BBTI”:

“And in the conversation where Srila Prabhupada complained so strongly about “rascals editors,” Srila Prabhupada said about Jayadvaita, “He is good.”

“Of course, regarding Jayadvaita Swami, the BBT’s chief editor, Srila Prabhupada wrote, “Concerning the editing of Jayadvaita Prabhu, whatever he does is approved by me. I have confidence in him.” (letter to Radhavallabha, 7 September 1976)

(From BBT International’s website)

NOW LISTEN PLEASE:

Prabhupada: I have given you charge of this BBT, millions of dollars you are dealing, but it is not for your misuse. As soon as you misuse, that is your responsibility.

Ramesvara: Yes, but he says but still, you’ll know that I’m going to misuse it.

Prabhupada: No. That Krsna knows, when something charge is given. But because you are independent, I know that “Ramesvara is very good boy; let him be in charge.” But you can misuse at any moment, because you have got independence. You can misuse at any moment. At that time your position is different.

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk — June 3, 1976, Los Angeles

(Morning Walk — June 3, 1976, Los Angeles)

This very important snippet is from a missing audio exchange, from a not properly (actually cutout) transcribed morning walk conversation. (That´s another issue in itself).

So the conclusion MUST be that the above two arguments for the continued post-samadhi editing of Jayadvaita Swami & Co. are CONDITIONAL. They are NOT absolute green lights from Srila Prabhupada to Jayadvaita Maharaj, at all.

ys. Bhakta Torben, Denmark.

01.09.14
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CUT CUT

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BY: BHAKTA TORBEN (originally posted on the Sampradaya Sun)

CUT CUT

“Ardha-kukkuti-nyaya. All rascals, they accept this Bhagavad-gita on the principle of ardha-kukkuti-nyaya. In the nyaya, in the logic. There is a logic, ardha-kukkuti-nyaya. What is that ardha-kukkuti-nyaya?

Kukkuti means the hen. So hen gives one egg every day. So the man, proprietor of the hen, he is considering that “This hen is very good, giving every day one egg. But the, its mouth is expensive. It eats. So let me cut the mouth, simply take the egg.”

So there are rascals, they study Bhagavad-gita on this principle of ardha-kukkuti-nyaya. “Cut this, take this, cut this, take this.” So if you cut the head, there will be no more egg. The rascal does not know. If you cut the head there will be no more production of egg.

So similarly, if you try to study Bhagavad-gita according to your whims, cut this and take this, that is not study of Bhagavad-gita.

That is something else. That is something else. That is something else.”

(Bhagavad-gita 1.28-29 – London, July 22, 1973)

01.02.14
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Frivolous Change of Chapter-heading

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The text below was sent to the BBT International through their website (http://www.bbtedit.com/contact) and to Jayadvaita Swami and Dravida Prabhu’s personal e-mails (jswami@pamho.net, jayadvaita.swami@pamho.net, dravida108@gmail.com) the 7th Feb. 2014. We asked them to comment on the points raised.

So far we have not received any reply.

BY: BHAKTA TORBEN (re-posted from Sampradaya Sun)

Dec 20, 2013 — DENMARK (SUN) — The sixth chapter of Srila Prabhupada’s original Bhagavad-gita is called “SANKHYA-yoga”. And Prabhupada often spoke of the sixth chapter like that. Here are a few examples:

“That is the perfection of yoga. When Krsna has advised yoga practice, sankhya-yoga… You have Bhagavad-gita? There is -SANKHYA-yoga. You’ll find in the forty-seventh verse. This is the version.”
(Room Conversation – May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio)

“In the Sixth Chapter He has explained the SANKHYA-yoga system and the concluding portion of the sankhya-yoga system is:

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gatenantar-atmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah”
(Bhagavad-gita 6.47 – Ahmedabad, December 12, 1972)

Prabhupada’s draft [so called original manuscript. This was personally typewritten by Srila Prabhupada]:

Skærmbillede 2013-12-20 kl. 10.17.55

“How can we sit down silently and do nothing? It is not possible. Therefore, after Sri Krsna outlined the SANKHYA-yoga system in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita,…”
(Path of Perfection 1: Yoga as Action)

“…Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports to the Fifth Chapter of the Srimad Bhagavad-gita on the subject of karma-yoga or acting in Krsna consciousness.”

Prabhupada: All right. Then we shall… SANKHYA-yoga shall I begin today or next day? This is a new chapter, we shall begin next day. (end)”
(Bhagavad-gita 5.26-29 – Los Angeles, February 12, 1969)

“That means one who is keeping always in Krsna consciousness, “abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service is most intimately united with Me in yoga, and is the highest of all.” This is the prime instruction of this chapter, SANKHYA-yoga, that if you want to become perfect yogi of the highest platform, then keep yourself in Krsna consciousness and you become the first-class yogi.”
(Bhagavad-gita 6.46-47 — Los Angeles, February 21, 1969)

“That is also stated in the SANKHYA-Yoga chapter of Bhagavad-gita:

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gatenantar-atmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah
[Bg. 6.47]

(Bhagavad-gita 7.1 – Calcutta, January 27, 1973)

BUT BUT BUT

Jayadvaita Swami changed Bhagavad-gita So-called As It Is, which says DHYANA-yoga for the sixth chapter IN SPITE of Srila Prabhupada calling it SANKHYA-yoga in many, many places.

Question arises: This seems such a NEEDLESS change. How dare one correct Srila Prabhupada on this one?

Your servant, no ill intended,

Bhakta Torben

—

Here we post many more examples where Prabhupada says that the sixth chapter of Bhagavad-gita As It Is deals with sankhya-yoga:

“So we have been discussing Bhagavad-gita. In Second Chapter, the Lord has very elaborately explained the constitutional position of the living entity, and the whole first portion of the Six Chapter. The Bhagavad-gita is divided into three portions. The first six chapter, the second six chapters and the third six chapters. Actually just like this book, there are two hard covers, and in the middle there is the substance, writing. So the first six chapters, they are just like two coverings. Karma-yoga and jnana-yoga. And the middle six chapters, well-protected, that is bhakti-yoga. So at the end of the first six chapters, Krsna concludes the yoga system. In the Sixth Chapter He has explained the sankhya-yoga system and the concluding portion of the sankhya-yoga system is:

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gatenantar-atmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah”
[Bg. 6.47] >>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 6.47 — Ahmedabad, December 12, 1972

“Thus end the Bhaktivedanta Purports to the Sixth Chapter of the Srimad-Bhagavad-gita in the matter of Sankhya-yoga Brahma-vidya.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => Bg 6.47

“Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Sankhya-yoga is the astanga-yoga. This sitting posture and meditation, this is called sankhya-yoga.
(69/02/16 Los Angeles, Bhagavad-gita 6.13-15)

“Lord Caitanya’s teachings are identical to those given by Lord Kapila, the original propounder of sankhya-yoga, the sankhya system of philosophy. This authorized system of yoga recommends meditation on the transcendental form of the Lord. There is no question of meditating on something void or impersonal. One can meditate on the transcendental form of Lord Visnu even without practicing involved sitting postures. Such meditation is called perfect samadhi. This perfect samadhi is verified at the end of the Sixth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gita, where Lord Krsna says, “And of all yogis, the one with great faith who always abides in Me, thinks of Me within himself, and renders transcendental loving service to Me-he is the most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all. That is My opinion.”” (Bg. 6.47) >>> Ref. VedaBase => Cc. 1975-Preface

“It is our duty to act in Krsna consciousness because we are constitutionally parts and parcels of the Supreme. The parts of the body work for the satisfaction of the entire body, not for the individual parts. The goal is the satisfaction of the complete whole. Similarly, the living entity should act for the satisfaction of the supreme whole, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and not for his own personal satisfaction. One who can do this is the perfect sannyasi and the perfect yogi. In the first verse of the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita, the chapter dealing with sankhya-yoga, Bhagavan Sri Krsna states,

anasritah karma-phalam
karyam karma karoti yah
sa sannyasi ca yogi ca
na niragnir na cakriyah

“One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no work.”” >>> Ref. VedaBase => PoP 1: Yoga as Action

“Krsna Himself does not sit down idly. All His pastimes are filled with activity. When we go to the spiritual world, we will see that Krsna is always engaged in dancing, eating, and enjoying. He does not sit down to meditate. Is there any account of the gopis meditating? Did Caitanya Mahaprabhu sit down to meditate? No, He was always dancing and chanting Hare Krsna. The spirit soul is naturally active. How can we sit down silently and do nothing? It is not possible. Therefore, after Sri Krsna outlined the sankhya-yoga system in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita, Arjuna frankly said,

yo ‘yam yogas tvaya proktah
samyena madhusudana
etasyaham na pasyami
cancalatvat sthitim sthiram

“O Madhusudana [Krsna], the system of yoga which You have summarized appears impractical and unendurable to me, for the mind is restless and unsteady.” (Bg. 6.33) Although Arjuna was highly elevated and was Krsna’s intimate friend, he immediately refused to take up this sankhya-yoga system.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => PoP 1: Yoga as Action

“In this Sixth Chapter, in which the Lord speaks of the sankhya-yoga system, He states from the very beginning that one cannot become a yogi unless one renounces the desire for sense gratification.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => PoP 2: Mastering the Mind and Senses

“In this Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita, the system of sankhya-yoga, which is the meditational astanga-yoga system, is emphasized.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => PoP 4: Moderation in Yoga

“Here it is clearly stated that there are many types of yogis-astanga-yogis, hatha-yogis, jnana-yogis, karma-yogis, and bhakti-yogis — and that of all the yogis, “he who always abides in Me” is said to be the greatest of all. “In Me” means in Krsna; that is, the greatest yogi is always in Krsna consciousness. Such a yogi “abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga, and is the highest of all.” This is the prime instruction of this Sixth Chapter on sankhya-yoga: if one wants to attain the highest platform of yoga, one must remain in Krsna consciousness.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => PoP 8: Failure and Success in Yoga

Devotee: “These preface perfection by devotional service which alone can award peace to the human being and is the highest goal of life. Thus end the Bhaktivedanta purports to the Fifth Chapter of the Srimad Bhagavad-gita on the subject of karma-yoga or acting in Krsna consciousness.”
Prabhupada: All right. Then we shall… Sankhya-yoga shall I begin today or next day? This is a new chapter, we shall begin next day. (end) >>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 5.26-29 — Los Angeles, February 12, 1969

Prabhupada: Now, here it is clearly stated that of all yogis, there are different kinds of yogis. Astanga-yogi, hatha-yogi, jnana-yogi, karma-yogi, bhakti-yogi. So bhakti-yoga is the highest platform of yoga principles. So Krsna says here, “And of all yogis.” There are different kinds of yogis. “Of all yogis he who always abides in Me,” in Krsna. Me means Krsna says “in Me.” That means one who is keeping always in Krsna consciousness, “abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service is most intimately united with Me in yoga, and is the highest of all.” This is the prime instruction of this chapter, Sankhya-yoga, that if you want to become perfect yogi of the highest platform, then keep yourself in Krsna consciousness and you become the first-class yogi. >>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 6.46-47 — Los Angeles, February 21, 1969

“If you want to learn Krsna, if you want to know Krsna, then you have to take this process. Mayy asakta-manah partha yogam. And if you practice this yoga, krsna-yoga, or bhakti-yoga, then you become the topmost of all yogis. That is also stated in the Sankhya Yoga chapter of Bhagavad-gita:

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gatenantar-atmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah”
[Bg. 6.47] >>> Ref. VedaBase => Bhagavad-gita 7.1 — Calcutta, January 27, 1973

“In Europe and America the yoga principle is very popular because they think by practice of yoga, they’ll have very good health and they can use their senses very nicely. That is yoga system. The fatty woman goes to the yoga class for reduce fat. That is yoga system. You see. Somebody is going to practice yoga system for making right the liver action. You see. Here is yoga: vasudeva-para yogah. That is… Krsna also says in the Yoga chapter, Sankhya-yoga chapter, Krsna says,

yoginam api sarvesam
mad-gatenantar-atmana
sraddhavan bhajate yo mam
sa me yuktatamo matah”
[Bg. 6.47] >>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.28-29 — Vrndavana, November 8, 1972

“These Krsna conscious persons, people, they are also yogis, bhakti-yogis. They are the best of the yogis. As we see in the Bhagavad-gita, in the chapter in which Sankhya yoga has been explained, the conclusion is, yoginam api sarvesam: [Bg. 6.47] “Of all the yogis…” Yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantar-atmana: “One who is thinking within himself about Me, Krsna,” mad-gaten… sraddhavan, “with faith and love,” bhajate mam, “engaged in My devotional service,” sa me yuktatamo matah, “he is the first-class yogi. He is the first-class yogi.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.5.1 — London, August 30, 1971

“Of course, those who are too much engrossed with the bodily concept of life, they have been recommended to practice the hatha-yoga system. That is also mentioned in the Srimad-Bhagavad-gita. Just like you’ll find in the “Sankhya-yoga.” This Bhagavad-gita As It Is, as we have published, page number 153, there is a statement how one should practice this transcendental meditation. Verse number thirteen and fourteen, it is said, “One should hold one’s body, neck and head erect in a straight line.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => Northeastern University Lecture — Boston, April 30, 1969

“Prabhupada: Yoginam api sarvesam: “Of all the yogis…” Yoginam api sarvesam. That is the last verse of the yoga chapter, sankhya-yoga chapter. Yoginam… When Arjuna said that “This practice of astanga-yoga is not possible for me.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation — December 13, 1970, Indore

“Therefore it is conclusive that so called yoga followers are simply cheated and they are wasting their time. I have already explained these points in the Sankhya yoga chapter of the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, so you read them carefully and present it, point by point, in suitable occasions.” >>> Ref. VedaBase => Letter to: Satsvarupa — Hawaii 19 March, 1969

10.24.13
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“The duty of the finger” (Bg. 4.38)

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This article was sent to the BBT International through their website (http://www.bbtedit.com/contact) and to Jayadvaita Swami’s personal e-mails (jswami@pamho.net and jayadvaita.swami@pamho.net) the 24th Oct. 2013. We asked them to comment on the points raised.

So far we have not received any reply.

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By Bhakta Torben and Ajit Krishna Dasa

Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita 4.38, original 1972 edition:

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Jayadvaita Swami’s version (BBT International, 1983 edition):

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The sentence,

“And one who has achieved this enjoys the self within himself in due course of time.”

is changed to:

“And one who has become accomplished in the practice of devotional service enjoys this knowledge within himself in due course of time.”

This change is both needless and alters the meaning.

It is NEEDLESS because Prabhupada has not asked for it.

It alters the meaning, as the words “enjoys the self” is erased and replaced with “enjoys this knowledge”.

And the words “has achieved this” are substituted with “has become accomplished in the practise of devotional service”.

Furthermore the words “are culminated” in the end of the purport are NEEDLESSLY changed to “culminate”.

So there are NEEDLESS changes BOTH in the translation and in the purport.

Usually all this is explained away with something from the “original manuscript”. But on BBT International’s website we find no information about this change.

The “original manuscript” sounds like this:

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So AGAIN the “original manuscript” is seen to be closer to the 1972 original Bhagavad-gita than Jayadvaita Maharaj’s version.

On top of that, in the word-for-word translation the word “na – never” is changed to “na – nothing” and “svayam-itself” is changed to “svayam-himself”. Prabhupada personally did ALL the type-writing for the first six chapters of the so called “original manuscript”. In the “original manuscript” Prabhupada’s translation of “na” was “never” (Na-never) and his translation of “svayam” was “itself” (svayam-itself):

Skærmbillede 2013-10-24 kl. 14.13.44

So BBT International have CHANGED PRABHUPADA’S SANSKRIT TRANSLATION as it was PERSONALLY WRITTEN BY HIM, on his type writer. Prabhupada was very concerned with better knowing disciples that had become “learned” in sanskrit:

“…a little learning is dangerous, especially for the Westerners. I am practically seeing that as soon as they begin to learn a little Sanskrit immediately they feel that they have become more than their guru and then the policy is kill guru and be killed himself.” (from a letter to Dixit das on 18 Sep 1976)

Prabhupada gave this lecture from Bg. 4.38 and did not mention anything about changing anything:

Madhudvisa: Verse thirty-eight: “In this world there is nothing so sublime and pure as transcendental knowledge. Such knowledge is the mature fruit of all mysticism and one who achieved this enjoys the self within himself in due course of time [Bg. 4.38].”

Prabhupada: Yes. Knowledge: “I am part and parcel of Krishna, or God. My duty as part and parcel is to serve Krishna.” Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. The duty of the part and parcel is to serve.
(Bhagavad-gita 4.34-39, Los Angeles, January 12, 1969)

09.09.13
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Cover Up

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By Bhakta Torben Nielsen

(This was originally posted in the Sampradaya Sun.)

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Here in Denmark we have a “new” version of Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita As It Is (supposedly), coming up. One of the editors, Jahnu/Jahnudvipa prabhu, publicized his suggestion for a front cover (pictured below). As everyone can see, by comparison, it is different, in so many ways, from Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita As It Is. This is a local example, but from research on the Internet, it is easily seen how widespread this corruption is.

Srila Prabhupada:

“And the covers, if possible, should always be the same for each respective book regardless of what language it may be printed in.” (Letter to Jadurani, Bombay, January 3, 1975)

“Regarding Bhagavad-gita, enlarged edition, the picture approved by me to Jadurani is all right.” (Letter to: Satsvarupa – Los Angeles 31 July, 1970)

A subsequent “debate” on editor Jahnu’s suggestion of a Bhagavad-gita cover was quickly censored, including Jahnu’s picture. The topic was banned, as there is a stricture on that facebook forum (Krishna.dk) not to bring up “institutional”, “controversial” or “negative” material.

The idiotic irony is that bringing up the topic is “controversial” and forbidden – but DOING these things, changing the books, is fine.

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Jahnu’s Suggested Bhagavad-gita cover

______________________________________________

A few comments from Ajit Krishna Dasa (not featured in the post at Sampradaya Sun)

It is truly astonishing to see the amount of mistakes on this suggested cover:

  • Bhagavad-gita is wrongly spelled with capital “G” in “gita. It is supposed to be a small “g”.

Prabhupada says:

“Regarding the listing of the Bhagavad-gita in the religion catalog of MacMillan, they have spelled it Bhagavid Gita and not Bhagavad-gita As It Is. I do not know why they should commit such mistake, I hope that this will not hamper the sales. Please point out this discrepancy to Mr. Wade.” (Letter to Brahmananda, Los Angeles, 19 December, 1968)

  • Over the “i” and the “a” there should be a line. That could be excused if this is not the final version, and the sanskrit diacritics will be added later.
  • On the original it says “As It Is”. In Jahnu’s this is changed to only capital letters “SOM DEN ER”.
  • On the original books it says “His Divine grace”. On Jahnu’s we find “Sri Srimad A.C…”
  • Regarding the artwork itself. Prabhupada was happy about the front cover of his 1972 edition. He approved it. He never asked for it to be changed at any point. The original cover is shining, it gives the impression of heroism, chivalry and fighting for the right cause. The colors on Jahnu’s cover is dark, boring and depressing. Prabhupada said that if a painting should be changed it should be the exact same scene, but made better (read more about this here). On Jahnu’s cover we find a different scene, and the dark and depressing colors certainly does’nt make it better.

I find it truly astonishing how a BBT International editor like Jahnu, who has been working for BBTI for more than 20 years, doesn’t know or care about the clear instructions from Srila Prabhupada regarding front covers, artwork and text-editing. The amount of speculation Jahnu puts into his cover is amazing.

09.03.13
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A relevant question

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By Bhakta Torben Nielsen

prab-rupaPrabhupada at Rupa Goswami’s Samadhi (©Bhaktivedanta Book Trust)

Rupa Goswami says in Nectar of Instruction, text 6:

“Being situated in his original Kṛṣṇa conscious position, a pure devotee does not identify with the body. Such a devotee should not be seen from a materialistic point of view. Indeed, one should overlook a devotee’s having a body born in a low family, a body with a bad complexion, a deformed body, or a diseased or infirm body. According to ordinary vision, such imperfections may seem prominent in the body of a pure devotee, but despite such seeming defects, the body of a pure devotee cannot be polluted. It is exactly like the waters of the Ganges, which sometimes during the rainy season are full of bubbles, foam and mud. The Ganges waters do not become polluted. Those who are advanced in spiritual understanding will bathe in the Ganges without considering the condition of the water.”

(So is Srila Prabhupada’s Bhagavad-gita As It Is not as purifying as the Ganges?! And should we, taking Rupa Goswami’s instructions above to heart, find any faults in it?!)

Greetings from Denmark,
Hare Krishna.

Bhakta Torben Nielsen