E-mail exchange between Jayadvaita Swami and Ajit Krishna Dasa

Help us by “sharing” and “liking” this post!

JSportraitJayadvaita Swami

akdAjit Krishna Dasa

I sent this e-mail to Jayadvaita Swami (23rd October 2013):

Dear Jayadvaita Maharaja! Dandavat pranam! Jaya Prabhupada!

I have written several times via the contact form on the BBTedit.com website. But I have not received any replies.

I have done studies of some of the changes made to the Bhagavad-gita As It Is, and my conclusion is that there are some problems. I would very much like your reponse to some of the articles on my new blog:

https://arsaprayoga.wordpress.com/

The amount of devotees concerned with the editing of the BBT International increases. Information is being spread like wildfire via facebook and other social medias.

Here are the 5 articles I have sent via the contact form on BBTedit.com. I hope we will receive your replies to all the points raised in all the 5 articles:

https://arsaprayoga.wordpress.com/category/no-reply-from-bbt-international/

Our intention is to publish your answers along with our comments (if we have any). If we do not get answers that will also be posted.

Everything will be shared using facebook, twitter, pinterest, e-mails, google+, linkedin and more.

This e-mail will also be posted and shared!

We hope you will have time to reply!

Hare Krishna
​Your lowly servant,
Ajit Krishna Dasa

Jayadvaita Swami’s preliminary reponse (25th Oct. 2013):

PERSONAL AND CONFIDENTIAL
Not for publishing, quoting, forwarding, etc.

Dear Ajit Krishna,

Please accept my best wishes. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I wish to acknowledge receiving your letter.

I have 70 letters now in my in-box, more come every day, and during Kartika I spend more time reading and chanting. So I may not respond quickly. But I *will* look at what you wrote and respond.

As a general note:

Rather than first write me directly, you have chosen first to express your concerns through propaganda on the internet. I regard this as a sort of rowdy, uncultured behavior. I doubt that any competent Vaisnava spiritual guide has advised you to act in this way.

The approach you have chosen complicates communication. It conveys a poor impression of your worth. And it sends your letter down, not up, my priority list.

I do value critical input, but I value it more when given personally, in a gentlemanly fashion.

Anyway, as I said, I will look at what you wrote and respond.

Hare Krsna.

Hoping this finds you in good health,

Yours in Srila Prabhupada’s service,
Jayadvaita Swami

PS:

My apologies for your not receiving replies to the messages you sent to BBTedit.com. I am not the person to whom messages sent there automatically go. And I don’t have control over that part of the site’s infrastructure. When time allows, I’ll write to the person who controls it and try to break the jam.

Hare Krsna.

Ajit Krishna Dasa (28th October 2013):

Dear Jayadvaita Swami! Dandavat pranam! Jaya Prabhupada!

Thank you very much for your kind reply to my e-mail! Very nice to
hear from you!

As I wrote in my first e-mail this correspondence will be made public.
The debate about the book changes ought to be in full disclosure,
exposed to as much light as possible. Prabhupada’s books are, after
all, our law books for the next ten thousand years, so we want
complete transparency when changes to the books are being made.

I know thousands of devotees would love if you would prioritize this
debate more than any other topic. But if you do not agree to my public
approach and find it “rowdy” and “uncultured” you are, of course, free
not to engage in the debate. But before you do that, kindly consider
that BOTH sides of this debate for years have been making “propaganda”
(a term Prabhupada mostly used with positive connotations) on the
internet and elsewhere for years.

For example, BBTedit.com use typical propaganda tools like claiming
they dispel the “myths” promoted by those opposed to the book changes.
They also publish videos with small, carefully selected snippets of a
long video with Madhudvisa Prabhu aiming at creating doubts about his
personality and statements (Why can’t we see the full video?).

You are yourself publishing articles wherein you use sarcasm as a
propaganda tool. Examples are these articles:

http://www.jswami.info/images_planet_trees

http://www.jswami.info/content/bbt_calendar_unauthorized_changes

I try my best to not use sarcasm and other such tricks on my blog
https://arsaprayoga.wordpress.com and I will guarantee you a nice
treatment if our exchange continues.

My plan is that I will systematically go through the complete gita and
send you all my questions. I will post them on my blog with the
following notice:

“This article was sent to the BBT International through their website
(http://www.bbtedit.com/contact) and to Jayadvaita Swami’s personal
e-mails (jswami@pamho.net and jayadvaita.swami@pamho.net) the
date-month-year. We asked them to comment on the points raised. So far
we have not received any reply.”

Everything will be spread through social media like facebook etc.

The picture that the BBT International tries to paint is that:

1. You are authorized by Prabhupada to change his Bhagavad-gita.

2. You are only making corrections back to the so called original manuscript.

3. That you have made no unnecessary changes.

4. That you honor the arsa-prayoga principle by not correcting
Prabhupada’s sanskrit and personally chosen words, but only the words
of the previous editors.

However, in my studies I (and others) have found:

1. Corrections made to Prabhupada’s sanskrit translations and chosen words.

2. New words which are not to be found in the so called original
manuscript or in the 1972 edition being added to the gita.

3. Words that are both found in the so called original manuscript and
in the 1972 edition being removed from the gita.

4. Unnecessary change of syntax (sentence structure).

There are thousands of devotees following this debate and eagerly
awaiting your comments to all the points raised both in this e-mail
and in all the blogposts I have previously sent to you and the BBT
International.

What other topic ought to be prioritized higher than this?

We all hope you will find time to answer these important questions!

Have a wonderful day,
Your lowly servant,
Ajit Krishna Dasa (Denmark)

PS: I forgot to mention a 5th point, namely that I also found in my studies of the book changes that Prabhupada never authorized you (or anyone else) to re-edit the Bhagavad-gita.

Ys, Ajit Krishna Dasa

We are now awaiting Jayadvaita Swami’s reply.

Read PART 2 here

30 thoughts on “E-mail exchange between Jayadvaita Swami and Ajit Krishna Dasa

  1. Buenisimo que se trate con tanta altura este tema tan importante,las correccionesal Alma de Srela Prabhupada

  2. Thousands of devotees and millions of lost souls demand an answer now, yes. Thank you. What a duplicitous and wretchedly poor reply from the self-promoting mudha who thinks his changes upon changes to the Perfect Divine Books of His Divine Grace Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada are required and are improvements. Wot rubbish. He’ll never answer you as he can’t answer you. All your good arguments expertly defeat his actions. Now, how do we get him and his stupid supporters to STOP?!! Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. Namaste.

    • Esto exede los limites de mi comprension ,El Fundador Acarya Sus emociones maduras que es evidente la potencia de ellas por el gran beneficio que sus emiciones hicieron de nosotros ,tambien vi como cambio el Mu el gesto ,de Su Divina Gracia , todo compasivo y a la ves reformante con avilidades superiores,un gusto superior que muchos adquirimos ,el gesto obviamente cambio ,a favor de un estado totalitario ,enroscado con planes de estudio copiado de los trust de comercio americano,el cambio de la libertad de las almas que avanzaron por el terror al asi llamado guru local que se puede decir pobres los miles de devotos y los millones de almas ,que pudieron recibir la refrescante lluvia de amor de Srila Prabhupada a cambio de un ,uno mas de los estados policiacos y corruptos de este planeta…….Radhe Radhe…..

  3. Thank you for this interesting topic Prabhu, I have heard a class given at the manor where these subjects were raised and I felt that the answers satisfied my doubts at that time. I have very little knowledge of the intricacies of this subject matter however and am looking forward to hearing more about this discourse…..

  4. It’s a common misconception that it’s good to have Śrīla Prabhupāda’s books closer to the original dictation. Śrīla Prabhupāda didn’t want his books to be “closer to the original dictation.” He wanted them to be edited exactly the way that they were being edited.

  5. ““As soon as you interpret or change the scripture, the scripture looses its authority. Then another man will come and interpret things in his own way. Another will come and then another and in this way the original purport of the scripture is lost.” (Srila Prabhupada – Quest for Enlightenment – 6)

    “Why do you want to change the wheels? This is unnecessary. Don’t do this. Keep the old system strong and if necessary, repair it. Don’t change from this to that. That is your American disease. This is very serious that you always want to change everything.” (Srila Prabhupada letter to Bhakta dasa November 24, 1974.)”

    Changing one printing after the other over and over, “destroying the original purport of the scripture” for Kali. And ISKCON honors, supports and funds him. What the heck is going ON?

  6. Prabhu ji, wonderful service you are doing. When it comes to Jayadvaita swami`s dealings i found that he is consistently inconsistent with his rationale for his capricious and constant changing of the book not only by Srila Prabhupada but also the books of previous Acharya`s. e.i. (Gopiparandhana translation of Brihad Bhagavatamrita and Sandharba`s) the fall of jiva sidhanta that does not fit their preconceptions are systematically removed.

    http://prabhupadavision.com/2013/06/iskcon-academia-part-three/

    • Dear Prabhu! Thank you so much! I was thinking to publish this article on my blog. Thanks for giving the link.

      Ys, Ajit

    • THUMBS UP…………………WE NEVER FELL FROM GOLOKA VRNDAVANA……………or any spiritual planet. The marginal area known as Tatashta Region is fallen jiva’s inconcievable beginning…………..the goal is clear. It belittles the IMMENSE SPIRITUAL REALM to even consider a faulty area of such a magnanimous and splendid World, that one could fall from THERE.. JAI SRI

      • Yes Mr.Matthews prabhu ,Through out Srila Prabhupada’s books he has stated no one falls from goloka or Vaikuntha —-but devotees have read Srila Prabhupada’s letters where he says —yes free will to enjoy separate from Krishna —-such thinking of enjoying separate from Krishna is Maya —maya means darkness –ignorance —how can darkness reside in such Spiritual planets —Krishna is like the Sun —whereever there is Krishna —there is no Darkness —therefore there is no room for ignorance —period .yes from tatsha realm –marginal yes but not from Krishna or Vaikuntha loka —-if Devotees cannot understand such simple basic than I feel very sorry for them —-Krishna has repeatedly said —na iti mam iti sah Arjuna —-one who comes to me never comes back to this material world period.

      • Chandra Prabhu,

        Please could you expand on this point as I am one of the ones you refer to as feeling sorry for. Whilst I was living in the Temple, there was an argument that came up in class regarding this point and the Temple president refused to go any further with it stating that he was not prepared to answer as his spiritual master HH Siva Rama Swami also has not commented on this point and that it is a grey area that was not answered while HDG Srila Prabhupada was on the planet.

        It is liberating to hear you talk of this as I have never heard this answer regarding the tatsha realm or marginal realm and falling from here. It has never made sense to me that Krishna says when you arrive at the spiritual realm then you never return to material…

        I also asked this question once to an experienced devotee in class and he came down heavy on me saying that its more important to ask “how to get out of here, now that we are here than to ask how we got here” He used the example of man being stabbed and looking for the people that did it, instead to get the wound sorted and save his life?

        Please can you help me to find clarity on this point? I guess the biggest trouble I have is we are eternal and I am looking for a starting point (being a conditioned soul) as to how we ended up here.

        Thank you,

        Your Servant,

        B Steve.

        ps I would also love some sastric references if you have them so that I can do some research and gain more understanding on this point.

  7. Dandavat. Jai Srila Prabhupada.The world is going to hell. India is today one of the major exporters of beef and our only shelter is the original books of SP. Save the books, Save this world. Good job.

  8. Great Job Prabhu.. Let Prabhupada give you immense strength.. to put your correct thoughts… Jai Prabhupada..

  9. Simply because there is no stock of books, we can do anything whimsically??? Is this logic? Gita is not spoken in Vrindaban, it is spoken on the battlefield of Kuruksetra, but this is Vrindaban picture. That chariot driven by 4 horses, that is the real Kuruksetra picture. It is not that because there is no stock we can do whimsically as we like and lose the idea, that is rasa-bhasa. Because there is no bread, you take stone to eat? There is no stock of bread so you will take stone??? The front picture is most important thing and you have changed it. It must remain standard, and not change. Also, the lettering is not nice on the cover. You could have taken a color picture of Krishna and Arjuna and used it black and white (one color) on the front cover. Just as you did with the inside back cover of the Bhagavat darsana, the original picture of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was in color but you have printed it in black and white. You could have done this on the front cover with Krishna and Arjuna on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra, but the cover must not be changed.” (Letter: Bhargava, May 29, 1976)

  10. Dear friends!

    The rules of the forum commands, that we stick to the topic of book changes. Therefore kindly continue your otherwise very interesting exchange about the fall of the jiva somewhere else.

    Anyways, thanks for participating here!

    Your servant, Ajit Krishna Dasa

  11. What is your plan with Srila Prabhupada’s books when the language changes over time? 10.000 years is a very long time! Look what happened to the Christian prayer “Our father in Heaven” in just 900 years:

    Maria Estling Vannestål, PhD in english linguistics writes in her book “A University Grammar of English with a Swedish Perspective” the following in p. 34 about language and change: “…A language is a dynamic phenomenon that changes continuously, and that includes the grammatical system, even though it is perhaps easier to notice changes in vocabulary (new words created, words changing their meaning etc.) than grammatical changes… If we go far back in time we can see that grammar has changes enormously.

    The Lord’s Prayer (‘Fader vår’)

    Old English (11th Century)
    Fæder ure þu þe eart on heofonum;
    Si þin nama gehalgod
    tobecume þin rice
    geweorþe ðin willa on eorðan
    swa swa on heofonum…

    Early Modern English – from King James’ Bible (1611)
    Our Father which art in heaven,
    hallowed be Thy name.
    Thy kingdom come.
    Thy will be done, in earth, as it is in heaven…

    Present-day English – from The Alba House New Testament (1970)
    Our Father in Heaven,
    let your holy name be known,
    let your kingdom come,
    and your will be done,
    on earth as in heaven…

    Grammatical changes usually start in the spoken language, and when enough people use them, they might creep inte the written language as well. Newspapers are often quicker than other text genres in picking up new trends in a language, whereas, for instance, scientific texts tend to be much more conservative. Grammatical change is an area that attracts a great deal of attention, and many people have very negative attitudes to on-going changes, as is evidenced by the many angry letters and phone calls to newspapers, radio programs etc. All this anger is rather meaningless, however, since we cannot stop language from changing as long as there are living beings speaking it.”

    If the Cristians were able to maintain the meaning of their main prayer over centuries, why would expert devotees of the BBT not be able to?
    Your humble servant, Mangalavati Citra devi dasi

    • Dear Mangalavati Citra Mataji!

      Just as we translate from English to Danish (and other languages), so we can make a translation from older English to newer English. This has to be stated on the front cover of the book, and also inside. And the original Bhagavad-gita As It Is should always stay available on the market for those who want it.

      But let us see if the language actually changes. If Krishna consciousness is spread to every nook and corner of the world, then Prabhupada’s English might become standard for the next 10000 years.

      Your servant,
      Ajit Krishna Dasa

      • Hare Krishna Prabhu.

        I agree with what you wrote in the first paragraph. But it is not that the original books are not available. The books are on-line, for free with the permission from the BBT and in cooperation with the BBT at least on this webpage: http://www.vanisource.org/wiki/Main_Page.

        What you write in the second paragraph is unrealistic because so many people speak English all over the world and it changes in different regions differently.

        Please give an answer with your solution to the changes of language over time. The vocabulary and grammar changes and remember that some words stay the same but change their meaning. That is tricky!

        If the language changes and SP’s books stay the same, nobody will understand a word after a few centuries. Is it that what you want? And if they stay the same, then people will have to study old English in order to read SP’s books, but who will do that? I mean how many persons learn old Hebrew and Greek just to read the old manuscripts of the Bible? Hardly anybody. Please provide us with your solution to this problem.

        Your humble servant,
        Mangalavati Citra devi dasi

      • Hare Krishna Mother Mangalavati Citra

        Firstly the English language has not changed so there is no problem at all.

        And you are missing the point of the book changes altogether.

        What we are complaining about is unauthorized changes to Srila Prabhupada’s books. No one is saying they can not be translated into different languages.

        The point is the English language has NOT CHANGED yet BBT are making totally unauthorized and completely unnecessary changes to Srila Prabhupada’s books. This has been very nicely explained in other articles on this website. Please read them.

        So there is no logic in what you are saying. You seem to be trying to justify the current unauthorized changes the BBT are making because the English language may change in the future. But the English language has not changed.

        So you are writing nonsense. The English language has not changed and there is no reason whatsoever for changing Prabhupada’s books.

        And if the English language does change then Prabhupada’s original books are still in English. So the original books will remain in English and if there is some new language that evolves from English then as Ajit Krishna Prabhu has explained if English language does change into something different [which is very unlikely] then Prabhupada’s books can be translated to that new language also. But of course there will still be a huge demand for Prabhupada’s original books in the original English as there is still a huge demand for the King James Bible in the old English.

        You complain about the Lord’s Prayer for example “Our Father who art in heaven…” The Christians are not going to change this because it is in old English. Everyone knows what it means and they keep praying “Our Father who art in heaven…” because that is the authorized translation. And the keep on reading the King James Bible, even though it is in old English.

        So Prabhupada’s original books in English can not be changed. If some new language evolves then they can be translated into that new language but Prabhupada’s original books will still be in English and will still be available and will still remain the same. FOREVER.

        Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

        Madhudvisa dasa

  12. The original books should be available in the same way that the edited books are available – not only digitally, but also in physical format (in lack of better words). And they should be made available to all devotees. They should be sold in temples, and devotee should be informed objectively about the changes, so they can make a qualified decision as to which editions they want to buy and read. So far only the Gita, 1976 Bhagavatam and some small book are available like that.

    I have already given you an answer:

    “Just as we translate from English to Danish (and other languages), so we can make a translation from older English to newer English. This has to be stated on the front cover of the book, and also inside. And the original Bhagavad-gita As It Is should always stay available on the market for those who want it.”

    It is very simply. It is not a complicated thing.

    Whether the language changes is a secondary point which will never be a problem if we follow the above solution – translating from old to new English (and write it on the cover and keep the originals available).

    • Hare Krishna Ajit Krishna Prabhu

      The edited books with unauthorized changes are unauthorized and contain so many misrepresentations of what Srila Prabhupada wrote and so many unauthorized changes to the philosophy. They are produced in an unauthorized way. They are the result of one editor’s opinions and mental speculation only as to what should be changed in Prabhupada’s books.

      There are no checks and balances. A BBT editor can change anything he wants to in Prabhupada’s books and the BBT will publish it with all those unauthorized changes without even requiring the editor to document what he has changed or give any justification for the changes.

      So books that have been changed in such an unauthorized way are not bona-fide, they carry no authority whatsoever, therefore these books with unauthorized changes should not be available.

      Only Srila Prabhupada’s original books should be available.

      If an authorized system for correcting actual typographical errors in the books, without changing the books, can be established that is completely transparent and which all the devotees have faith in then that can be introduced at some point.

      But Prabhupada’s books with unauthorized changes are like sweet rice with sand in it. You can not say that both sweet rice and sweet rice with sand should be available. No one wants sweet rice with sand. Only the unadulterated sweet rice should be available.

      Chant Hare Krishna and be happy!

      Your servant

      Madhudvisa dasa

      • Yes, I completely agree. The changed books should not be available at all.

        I simply meant to say that if, and since, BBTI insist and persist in having the edited books on the market, then they should also have the originals. I was talking about the present scenario where the edited books are in the market, and where we cannot just stop them here and now.

        But of course, the edited books are an offense to Srila Prabhupada, and they should not be published at all.

  13. millions of life times in the material world all kinds of suffering we have all been through by krishna mercy we crossed path with srila prabhupada i trillion per cent the game changer he was the most merciful to give us the chance to become krishna consciousness and he will live in his books for the next ten thousand years and continue as the guru who lives in his books a real person sharing his liberating message with the conditioned souls they are all dependant on this generation protecting the guru who lives in his books.im visualising all the residents of krishnas universal form throwing flowers on you ajita krishna das and torbin for you protecting the guru who lives in his books .the difference between krishna and prabhupadas gita and what js has done with his unauthorised with zero qualification to touch a word of srila prabhupada s legacy he is completely defeated by govinda dasi so on behalf of all the conditioned souls who are dependant on prabhupadas pure sabda brahma being intact thank you your servant punya http://www.bgconference.com

  14. prabhus can you please check out prabhupadaglobalkirtanrevolution.com and consider helping share with the iskcon community for the fiftyth anniversary we need every kirtan leader in the movement and also http://www.dharmarevolution.com we need every goshala in the movement to post their projects you prabhus are good at internet hare krishna jaya prabhupada your servant punya

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s